"Houston looks stupid for not drafting vince young"

:roll:

this is the same guy who claimed before the draft vince young ran a offense a texas so simple that it was like a playground offense because vince young was too stupid and could never run a pro style offense

this guy never ceases to amaze me

:roll:

this is the same guy who claimed before the draft vince young ran a offense a texas so simple that it was like a playground offense because vince young was too stupid and could never run a pro style offense

this guy never ceases to amaze me

Unreal, but I am not surprised by this comment.

You cannot look at a draft in this way. It's stupid. Vince Young has had a good couple of games, but who's to say that he would have been met with the same success in Houston?

Now, although I understood why Houston drafted Mario Williams, I disagreed with the pick. I felt that Reggie Bush was the right pick, especially when you factor in Domanick Davis' injury history.

I also felt that David Carr was talented and needed some help upfront. He was the victim of a seive like, porous offensive line. Investing so much money in another QB, one which would likely take another three years to develop was far too great an investment.

To me, it's a mistake to make such comments about players after one season. This comment should be made years later.

Merrill Hoge has been killing Vince Young and the Titans. He killed them on draft day for taking him.

Do a youtube search I think his rant about what a bad pick he was is on there. The guy is such an ***.

Carr is garbage and doesnt make big plays
He has one touchdown in the last 7 games and it is not always the lines fault
Hes been in the league 5 years. Its time to figure it out or get out.
It may take a young quarterback 3 years to develop but Carr has been in the league 5 and hasnt developed. How many quarterbacks get 5 years to **** up and still get a contract extension?

Vince has beaten the Texans twice this year and has more wins than Carr plus the Titans started very slow. Bush wasnt the right pick because he is not a 25-30 carry back.

So, in hindsight, Vince Young should have been Houston's first pick?

I think that's bs. Of course we see now that Young has been successful the last few games, but that still doesn't make him a better selection.

Houston, as I said before, already went the route of using a #1 pick on Carr. There was no way in hell that they'd use one on Vince Young, not with all the reports of his awkward throwing motions, etc. It's easy to say speculate on what a team should have done, but there's a lot that comes into play. Investing another #1 and a boat load of cash on a QB was not what Houston wanted to do. Most teams would have passed on Young in that spot.

I also disagree witht he argument that Bush is not a 25+ carry back. There are a bunch of backs in the league that at first appeared not to be every down backs but have proven otherwise. Look no further than Warrick Dunn and Tiki Barber.

After everything is said and done, Houston is still in a good situation. They still stand to get one of the top four picks and might be able to get Brady Quinn or Troy Smith.

I thought Vince Young was worthy of the #1 pick after witnessing the Rose Bowl last year. And I don't want to hear about the crap about whatever test he scored low in prior to the draft. You can get a franchise RB in just about any round. I think Terrell Davis, for instance, was a 6th round pick. How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft? QBs make or break a franchise. Consider Larry Johnson of the Chiefs. He's probably #1 or #2 Rb in the league, but the Chiefs languish in mediocrity because of Trent Green's limited play making ability. Vince Young can turn a game around all by himself. For that matter, I thought Leinart should have been the second overall pick.

I thought Vince Young was worthy of the #1 pick after witnessing the Rose Bowl last year. And I don't want to hear about the crap about whatever test he scored low in prior to the draft. You can get a franchise RB in just about any round. I think Terrell Davis, for instance, was a 6th round pick. How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft? QBs make or break a franchise. Consider Larry Johnson of the Chiefs. He's probably #1 or #2 Rb in the league, but the Chiefs languish in mediocrity because of Trent Green's limited play making ability. Vince Young can turn a game around all by himself. For that matter, I thought Leinart should have been the second overall pick.
Agreed for the most part although I dont think the Aints regret signing Brees and taking Bush.
Although it does beg the question of when will teams figure out the guys that win and do well all season are 95% of the time better then combine guys.

Carr is garbage and doesnt make big plays
He has one touchdown in the last 7 games and it is not always the lines fault
Hes been in the league 5 years. Its time to figure it out or get out.
It may take a young quarterback 3 years to develop but Carr has been in the league 5 and hasnt developed. How many quarterbacks get 5 years to **** up and still get a contract extension?

Vince has beaten the Texans twice this year and has more wins than Carr plus the Titans started very slow. Bush wasnt the right pick because he is not a 25-30 carry back.







I also disagree witht he argument that Bush is not a 25+ carry back. There are a bunch of backs in the league that at first appeared not to be every down backs but have proven otherwise. Look no further than Warrick Dunn and Tiki Barber.



but unlike tiki bush cannot run between the tackles,thats the on quesiton i had about him in college and still do

i think hes a great receiver and a dynamic player,but he cant run between the tackles as of now..

I thought Vince Young was worthy of the #1 pick after witnessing the Rose Bowl last year. And I don't want to hear about the crap about whatever test he scored low in prior to the draft. You can get a franchise RB in just about any round. I think Terrell Davis, for instance, was a 6th round pick. How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft? QBs make or break a franchise. Consider Larry Johnson of the Chiefs. He's probably #1 or #2 Rb in the league, but the Chiefs languish in mediocrity because of Trent Green's limited play making ability. Vince Young can turn a game around all by himself. For that matter, I thought Leinart should have been the second overall pick.

Sure, you can pick up franchise type backs in any round, but you also stand to have bigger qb busts in the first round as well.

Look at all the qbs taken in the top 12 picks and the amount of busts is ridiculous. Too much time and money to invest in one, especially when you've previously gone that route. Ask Baltimore how well their Kyle Boller pick went. Think Buffalo doesn't regret drafting JP Louse-man? :D

In today's NFL, I can also make the argument that you can win without drafting a franchise type qb. Surround him with a good line, wideouts, rbs and a solid D and you have a chance to win.

You ask "How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft?" and I counter often enough. Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were late round selections and there are a multitude of qbs that have gotten their team to the big dance. Matt Hasselback, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson are a few that have either been traded for or were free agent acquisitions. New Orleans looks like geniuses for signing Drew Brees.

The point I'm making is that it's not necessary to invest so much in a franchise type qb. Teams are shying away from that. You can easily bring in a qb via free agency, like NO or Carolina, or swing a trade like Seattle, without shelling out so much in time and draft picks and money. Teams might be better off trading down and acquring picks if their team is bad, and they still mgiht be able to get their future qb.

I also disagree with you about Trent Green. A qbs best friend is a rb, but Green has had less than Pro Bowl talent at wideout over the years and put up terrific numbers. Of all people, you mention Trent Green as having "limited playmaking ability"?!? :shock: Not only can he make every throw on the field, he is excellent at reading defenses and has had three straight 4,000 yd seasons.

I thought Vince Young was worthy of the #1 pick after witnessing the Rose Bowl last year. And I don't want to hear about the crap about whatever test he scored low in prior to the draft. You can get a franchise RB in just about any round. I think Terrell Davis, for instance, was a 6th round pick. How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft? QBs make or break a franchise. Consider Larry Johnson of the Chiefs. He's probably #1 or #2 Rb in the league, but the Chiefs languish in mediocrity because of Trent Green's limited play making ability. Vince Young can turn a game around all by himself. For that matter, I thought Leinart should have been the second overall pick.

Sure, you can pick up franchise type backs in any round, but you also stand to have bigger qb busts in the first round as well.

Look at all the qbs taken in the top 12 picks and the amount of busts is ridiculous. Too much time and money to invest in one, especially when you've previously gone that route. Ask Baltimore how well their Kyle Boller pick went. Think Buffalo doesn't regret drafting JP Louse-man? :D

In today's NFL, I can also make the argument that you can win without drafting a franchise type qb. Surround him with a good line, wideouts, rbs and a solid D and you have a chance to win.

You ask "How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft?" and I counter often enough. Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were late round selections and there are a multitude of qbs that have gotten their team to the big dance. Matt Hasselback, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson are a few that have either been traded for or were free agent acquisitions. New Orleans looks like geniuses for signing Drew Brees.

The point I'm making is that it's not necessary to invest so much in a franchise type qb. Teams are shying away from that. You can easily bring in a qb via free agency, like NO or Carolina, or swing a trade like Seattle, without shelling out so much in time and draft picks and money. Teams might be better off trading down and acquring picks if their team is bad, and they still mgiht be able to get their future qb.

I also disagree with you about Trent Green. A qbs best friend is a rb, but Green has had less than Pro Bowl talent at wideout over the years and put up terrific numbers. Of all people, you mention Trent Green as having "limited playmaking ability"?!? :shock: Not only can he make every throw on the field, he is excellent at reading defenses and has had three straight 4,000 yd seasons.

All very good points. Trent Green did indeed have 3 straight 4,000 yard seasons. I never thought of him as a QB though that stretched defenses. And he has had Pro Bowl talent at offensive line and Tight End (Gonzalez) just average receivers. I can tell you what: Trent Green would not have the ability to end the game last week against the Texans the way Young did, either with his arm or his legs. And if teams are shying away from drafting franchise QBs, how can you explain this year's draft of Young, Leinart, and Cutler, on the heels of Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger? And arguably Alex Smith in between? Losman was a very low first round QB draft choice: the ones I named were all top 10 picks. (Well Cutler was 11)

I thought Vince Young was worthy of the #1 pick after witnessing the Rose Bowl last year. And I don't want to hear about the crap about whatever test he scored low in prior to the draft. You can get a franchise RB in just about any round. I think Terrell Davis, for instance, was a 6th round pick. How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft? QBs make or break a franchise. Consider Larry Johnson of the Chiefs. He's probably #1 or #2 Rb in the league, but the Chiefs languish in mediocrity because of Trent Green's limited play making ability. Vince Young can turn a game around all by himself. For that matter, I thought Leinart should have been the second overall pick.

Sure, you can pick up franchise type backs in any round, but you also stand to have bigger qb busts in the first round as well.

Look at all the qbs taken in the top 12 picks and the amount of busts is ridiculous. Too much time and money to invest in one, especially when you've previously gone that route. Ask Baltimore how well their Kyle Boller pick went. Think Buffalo doesn't regret drafting JP Louse-man? :D

In today's NFL, I can also make the argument that you can win without drafting a franchise type qb. Surround him with a good line, wideouts, rbs and a solid D and you have a chance to win.

You ask "How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft?" and I counter often enough. Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were late round selections and there are a multitude of qbs that have gotten their team to the big dance. Matt Hasselback, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson are a few that have either been traded for or were free agent acquisitions. New Orleans looks like geniuses for signing Drew Brees.

The point I'm making is that it's not necessary to invest so much in a franchise type qb. Teams are shying away from that. You can easily bring in a qb via free agency, like NO or Carolina, or swing a trade like Seattle, without shelling out so much in time and draft picks and money. Teams might be better off trading down and acquring picks if their team is bad, and they still mgiht be able to get their future qb.

I also disagree with you about Trent Green. A qbs best friend is a rb, but Green has had less than Pro Bowl talent at wideout over the years and put up terrific numbers. Of all people, you mention Trent Green as having "limited playmaking ability"?!? :shock: Not only can he make every throw on the field, he is excellent at reading defenses and has had three straight 4,000 yd seasons.

All very good points. Trent Green did indeed have 3 straight 4,000 yard seasons. I never thought of him as a QB though that stretched defenses. And he has had Pro Bowl talent at offensive line and Tight End (Gonzalez) just average receivers. I can tell you what: Trent Green would not have the ability to end the game last week against the Texans the way Young did, either with his arm or his legs. And if teams are shying away from drafting franchise QBs, how can you explain this year's draft of Young, Leinart, and Cutler, on the heels of Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger? And arguably Alex Smith in between? Losman was a very low first round QB draft choice: the ones I named were all top 10 picks. (Well Cutler was 11)

It really depends on the team, Mike. My argument regarding Young is that it may not have been a good move for Houston, but so far, it was for Tennessee.

Dog is an idiot. His analysis is so terrible, and devoid of reason. These things do not exist in a vaccuum, there is cause and effect. Because Houston had already invested so much in Carr and had little in return, they were reluctant to draft Young. I think the reasons I stated earlier are solid. Dog doesn't look at these examples, though. He simply blurts out something and yells down anyone who disagrees.

For the Titans, Young was a perfect fit. McNair was a similar type of qb coming out of Alcorn State, and the Titans were already set up for him. I also think Gary Kubiak, having his first HC job, wanted something different. Before taking the job, I am sure he evaluated Carr and felt that he could help improve his play. Bringing in Moulds to take pressure off of Andre Johnson was also something Kubiak felt would help improve Carr's play as well as the offense as a whole.

I also think Kubiak was not overwhelmed with Young and his mechanics, and he wanted a surer, safer pick. Keep in mind that Young worked out extensively for the top three teams during the combines and on Texas day. Kubiak had to have a good idea about Young. I also think that a young, first time HC has to hit on his first draft pick, especially if it's the #1 overall. I do not agree, though, with the Mario Williams pick. I would have gone after Bush.

In the case of the qbs(Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, etc), I think those teams could make a play for a franchise type, due to their makeup. Pittsburgh, NY, San Diego, etc all had pieces already in place on offense and defense to groom a young qb. They had also not recently been burned by drafting someone in the top 5 or top ten, AND, they also had vets that failed to live up to expectations.

It's one thing to draft a Vince Young, Manning or Big Ben after having a Kordell Stewart or Kerry Collins. Even in San Diego's case, Brees had been bad and even benched the previous year.

I think, Mike, you understand what I'm saying. It's far too easy to say that Houston "messed up" by not drafting Young.

I thought Vince Young was worthy of the #1 pick after witnessing the Rose Bowl last year. And I don't want to hear about the crap about whatever test he scored low in prior to the draft. You can get a franchise RB in just about any round. I think Terrell Davis, for instance, was a 6th round pick. How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft? QBs make or break a franchise. Consider Larry Johnson of the Chiefs. He's probably #1 or #2 Rb in the league, but the Chiefs languish in mediocrity because of Trent Green's limited play making ability. Vince Young can turn a game around all by himself. For that matter, I thought Leinart should have been the second overall pick.

Sure, you can pick up franchise type backs in any round, but you also stand to have bigger qb busts in the first round as well.

Look at all the qbs taken in the top 12 picks and the amount of busts is ridiculous. Too much time and money to invest in one, especially when you've previously gone that route. Ask Baltimore how well their Kyle Boller pick went. Think Buffalo doesn't regret drafting JP Louse-man? :D

In today's NFL, I can also make the argument that you can win without drafting a franchise type qb. Surround him with a good line, wideouts, rbs and a solid D and you have a chance to win.

You ask "How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft?" and I counter often enough. Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were late round selections and there are a multitude of qbs that have gotten their team to the big dance. Matt Hasselback, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson are a few that have either been traded for or were free agent acquisitions. New Orleans looks like geniuses for signing Drew Brees.

The point I'm making is that it's not necessary to invest so much in a franchise type qb. Teams are shying away from that. You can easily bring in a qb via free agency, like NO or Carolina, or swing a trade like Seattle, without shelling out so much in time and draft picks and money. Teams might be better off trading down and acquring picks if their team is bad, and they still mgiht be able to get their future qb.

I also disagree with you about Trent Green. A qbs best friend is a rb, but Green has had less than Pro Bowl talent at wideout over the years and put up terrific numbers. Of all people, you mention Trent Green as having "limited playmaking ability"?!? :shock: Not only can he make every throw on the field, he is excellent at reading defenses and has had three straight 4,000 yd seasons.

All very good points. Trent Green did indeed have 3 straight 4,000 yard seasons. I never thought of him as a QB though that stretched defenses. And he has had Pro Bowl talent at offensive line and Tight End (Gonzalez) just average receivers. I can tell you what: Trent Green would not have the ability to end the game last week against the Texans the way Young did, either with his arm or his legs. And if teams are shying away from drafting franchise QBs, how can you explain this year's draft of Young, Leinart, and Cutler, on the heels of Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger? And arguably Alex Smith in between? Losman was a very low first round QB draft choice: the ones I named were all top 10 picks. (Well Cutler was 11)

It really depends on the team, Mike. My argument regarding Young is that it may not have been a good move for Houston, but so far, it was for Tennessee.

Dog is an idiot. His analysis is so terrible, and devoid of reason. These things do not exist in a vaccuum, there is cause and effect. Because Houston had already invested so much in Carr and had little in return, they were reluctant to draft Young. I think the reasons I stated earlier are solid. Dog doesn't look at these examples, though. He simply blurts out something and yells down anyone who disagrees.

For the Titans, Young was a perfect fit. McNair was a similar type of qb coming out of Alcorn State, and the Titans were already set up for him. I also think Gary Kubiak, having his first HC job, wanted something different. Before taking the job, I am sure he evaluated Carr and felt that he could help improve his play. Bringing in Moulds to take pressure off of Andre Johnson was also something Kubiak felt would help improve Carr's play as well as the offense as a whole.

I also think Kubiak was not overwhelmed with Young and his mechanics, and he wanted a surer, safer pick. Keep in mind that Young worked out extensively for the top three teams during the combines and on Texas day. Kubiak had to have a good idea about Young.

In the case of the qbs(Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, etc), I think those teams could make a play for a franchise type, due to their makeup. Pittsburgh, NY, San Diego, etc all had pieces already in place on offense and defense to groom a young qb. They had also not been recently been burned by drafting someone in the top 5 or top ten, AND, they also had vets that failed to live up to expectations.

It's one thing to draft a Vince Young after having a Kordell Stewart or Kerry Collins. Even in San Diego's case, Brees had been bad and even benched the previous year.

I think, Mike, you understand what I'm saying. It's far too easy to say that Houston "messed up" by not drafting Young.

What I realize is whether you ultimately agreed or disagreed with Houston taking a pass on Young, is that Russo lacks the football knowledge to analyze it on an esoteric level the way you and I are. There may have been a time 10-12 years ago when he could, but his priorities are now the San Francisco Giants first, MLB second, and the Tennis Grand Slam 3rd. Russo attempting to articulate these circumstances cogently would be akin to asking a priest to perform a pap smear.

I thought Vince Young was worthy of the #1 pick after witnessing the Rose Bowl last year. And I don't want to hear about the crap about whatever test he scored low in prior to the draft. You can get a franchise RB in just about any round. I think Terrell Davis, for instance, was a 6th round pick. How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft? QBs make or break a franchise. Consider Larry Johnson of the Chiefs. He's probably #1 or #2 Rb in the league, but the Chiefs languish in mediocrity because of Trent Green's limited play making ability. Vince Young can turn a game around all by himself. For that matter, I thought Leinart should have been the second overall pick.

Sure, you can pick up franchise type backs in any round, but you also stand to have bigger qb busts in the first round as well.

Look at all the qbs taken in the top 12 picks and the amount of busts is ridiculous. Too much time and money to invest in one, especially when you've previously gone that route. Ask Baltimore how well their Kyle Boller pick went. Think Buffalo doesn't regret drafting JP Louse-man? :D

In today's NFL, I can also make the argument that you can win without drafting a franchise type qb. Surround him with a good line, wideouts, rbs and a solid D and you have a chance to win.

You ask "How often can you draft a franchise QB that late in a draft?" and I counter often enough. Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were late round selections and there are a multitude of qbs that have gotten their team to the big dance. Matt Hasselback, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme and Brad Johnson are a few that have either been traded for or were free agent acquisitions. New Orleans looks like geniuses for signing Drew Brees.

The point I'm making is that it's not necessary to invest so much in a franchise type qb. Teams are shying away from that. You can easily bring in a qb via free agency, like NO or Carolina, or swing a trade like Seattle, without shelling out so much in time and draft picks and money. Teams might be better off trading down and acquring picks if their team is bad, and they still mgiht be able to get their future qb.

I also disagree with you about Trent Green. A qbs best friend is a rb, but Green has had less than Pro Bowl talent at wideout over the years and put up terrific numbers. Of all people, you mention Trent Green as having "limited playmaking ability"?!? :shock: Not only can he make every throw on the field, he is excellent at reading defenses and has had three straight 4,000 yd seasons.

All very good points. Trent Green did indeed have 3 straight 4,000 yard seasons. I never thought of him as a QB though that stretched defenses. And he has had Pro Bowl talent at offensive line and Tight End (Gonzalez) just average receivers. I can tell you what: Trent Green would not have the ability to end the game last week against the Texans the way Young did, either with his arm or his legs. And if teams are shying away from drafting franchise QBs, how can you explain this year's draft of Young, Leinart, and Cutler, on the heels of Manning, Rivers and Roethlisberger? And arguably Alex Smith in between? Losman was a very low first round QB draft choice: the ones I named were all top 10 picks. (Well Cutler was 11)

It really depends on the team, Mike. My argument regarding Young is that it may not have been a good move for Houston, but so far, it was for Tennessee.

Dog is an idiot. His analysis is so terrible, and devoid of reason. These things do not exist in a vaccuum, there is cause and effect. Because Houston had already invested so much in Carr and had little in return, they were reluctant to draft Young. I think the reasons I stated earlier are solid. Dog doesn't look at these examples, though. He simply blurts out something and yells down anyone who disagrees.

For the Titans, Young was a perfect fit. McNair was a similar type of qb coming out of Alcorn State, and the Titans were already set up for him. I also think Gary Kubiak, having his first HC job, wanted something different. Before taking the job, I am sure he evaluated Carr and felt that he could help improve his play. Bringing in Moulds to take pressure off of Andre Johnson was also something Kubiak felt would help improve Carr's play as well as the offense as a whole.

I also think Kubiak was not overwhelmed with Young and his mechanics, and he wanted a surer, safer pick. Keep in mind that Young worked out extensively for the top three teams during the combines and on Texas day. Kubiak had to have a good idea about Young.

In the case of the qbs(Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, etc), I think those teams could make a play for a franchise type, due to their makeup. Pittsburgh, NY, San Diego, etc all had pieces already in place on offense and defense to groom a young qb. They had also not been recently been burned by drafting someone in the top 5 or top ten, AND, they also had vets that failed to live up to expectations.

It's one thing to draft a Vince Young after having a Kordell Stewart or Kerry Collins. Even in San Diego's case, Brees had been bad and even benched the previous year.

I think, Mike, you understand what I'm saying. It's far too easy to say that Houston "messed up" by not drafting Young.

What I realize is whether you ultimately agreed or disagreed with Houston taking a pass on Young, is that Russo lacks the football knowledge to analyze it on an esoteric level the way you and I are. There may have been a time 10-12 years ago when he could, but his priorities are now the San Francisco Giants first, MLB second, and the Tennis Grand Slam 3rd. Russo attempting to articulate these circumstances cogently would be akin to asking a priest to perform a pap smear.

I fully agree, Mike.

It's one thing to disagree with someone, it's entirely another to be able to argue and reasonably defend your points.

I can certainly understand why someone would question Houston for not taking Vince Young, but the problem I have with Chris, as I do with most of his rants, is that he just says any nonsense off the top of his head without thinking. He just shouts you down.

Good debate, Mike. I think we agree on many things, but also agree to disagree. :wink: