Tiki HOF?

[priceyeah]

I want to throw this question out to the floor. Whenever they criticize Tiki -- and Tiki deserves a fair amount of criticism -- M&MD will often say "Look, we like Tiki, we think he's great, he'll probably go into the Hall of Fame."

Someone here once posted a list of WRs and demonstrated that it will be very difficult for e.g. Reggie Wayne or Torry Holt to make the HOF.

Isn't the same true of Tiki? Isn't it rather unlikely that he will make the Hall? Can anyone with a better sense of NFL history than me help us out here? Tiki has kinda-sorta Marshall Faulk stats but no ring. Has any NFL defense feared Tiki the way people feared Terrell Davis? Or Marcus Allen? Tiki isn't as good as those guys, is he? Or am I wrong? (Quite possible.)

Anyway, I'd appreciate an honest discussion of Tiki's place in history.

[JabbatheFrancesa]

Ok... The best way to look at Tiki Barber is where he compares to backs of our time period.

I don't think he is better than these backs in their primes.

(who have played during Tiki's career)
Terrell Davis
LaDanian Tollinson
Marshall Faulk
Edrin James (before injury)

I think he is good as

Curtis Martin
Shawn Alexander
Jerome Bettis
Rudi Johnson
Deuce McAllester
Warrick Dunn
Priest Holmes

I think Tiki is a Above Average back. He is not a great back. He has put up numbers that will probably get him Hall of Fame recognition.

However, I think he is mediocre when the chips are on the line. I don't think he is a good red zone back.

[archie]

Peter King wrote that hes borderline a couple of weeks ago however I wouldnt think so but he is a voter.

(who have played during Tiki's career)
Terrell Davis
LaDanian Tollinson
Marshall Faulk
Edrin James (before injury)

James does not belong here and Davis only had a 4 year career.

I think he is good as

Curtis Martin
Shawn Alexander
Jerome Bettis
Rudi Johnson
Deuce McAllester
Warrick Dunn
Priest Holmes

This list is all over the place. hes probably better then anyone on this list although Holmes had better years but Tikis overall numbers are better. Tiki will be helped by going out on top, the media loving him and being considered a genius that will go into a high profile job.

[A Couple Quickies]

Originally Posted by JabbatheFrancesa

Ok... The best way to look at Tiki Barber is where he compares to backs of our time period.

I don't think he is better than these backs in their primes.

(who have played during Tiki's career)
Terrell Davis
LaDanian Tollinson
Marshall Faulk
Edrin James (before injury)

I think he is good as

Curtis Martin
Shawn Alexander
Jerome Bettis
Rudi Johnson
Deuce McAllester
Warrick Dunn
Priest Holmes

I think Tiki is a Above Average back. He is not a great back. He has put up numbers that will probably get him Hall of Fame recognition.
However, I think he is mediocre when the chips are on the line. I don't think he is a good red zone back.

.

When you consider any RB into the Hall Debate, while the Hall does love backs, Thurman Thomas is not yet in. That should speak volumes about the standards.

My opinion, the recent locks not yet in the hall:

Emmitt
Ladanian
Curtis Martin
Marshall Faulk

Borderline but should go in:

Bettis
Shaun Alexander

Borderline but could go in:
Ricky Watters
Eddie George

Too brief a window of brillance, could make it, but probably not:
Edgerrin James
Terrell Davis
Priest Holmes
Jamal Lewis

Too early to tell but probably not:
Rudi Johnson
Deuce McCalister
Fred Taylor

I think Tiki is clearly ahead of the last three, but he never really touched the short brillance of Edge/TD/Priest and JLewis and is he really better than even Eddie George or Watters?

Playing in New York will help him, but do the math, he's gonna have an uphill climb going in the hall. Check out the "modern era" backs in the hall, they are elite and you don't second guess them:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.html

And I'm a Giants fan, but if Tiki(or frankly most of these guys) go in ahead of the truly dominant Thurman Thomas, there's some questions to be answered

[Unclever Name]

Tiki's been average most of his career until Coughlin started coaching him, and then ironically enough became one of the best backs in the league.....well, until this year at least. For a running back, Tiki has been around for a long time. He's not a Hall of Famer at all though. Sorry Giant fans, too many other good backs out there over the years.

[Oh Really]

tikis borderline but i wouldnt put him in

i dont think football is a sport though where if a guy has a ring or not can be the end all be all if hes in the hof because its the ultimate team sport,its not the nba where a star can make all the difference,

[vtred]

HOF of self promotion...yes

HOF of NFL...no way

[priceyeah]

Yeah. I'd be very surprised if he makes it. He's a fine player, an MVP candidate in some years (although never won, which itself is a drag if you're trying to make the HOF). It's hardly a diss, to say someone is not one of the no-doubt all-time greats. But he's not.

[Sid's Manager]

he's going to end up in the top 10 all time for yards gained from scrimmage. He's certainly worth discussing for the HOF, but he will likely fall short. He needed another 2-3 good years....

Check out his yards per carry average....not many guys are better than that over their careers.

[Sid's Manager]

Originally Posted by JabbatheFrancesa

Ok... The best way to look at Tiki Barber is where he compares to backs of our time period.

I don't think he is better than these backs in their primes.

(who have played during Tiki's career)
Terrell Davis
LaDanian Tollinson
Marshall Faulk
Edrin James (before injury)

I think he is good as

Curtis Martin
Shawn Alexander
Jerome Bettis
Rudi Johnson
Deuce McAllester
Warrick Dunn
Priest Holmes

I think Tiki is a Above Average back. He is not a great back. He has put up numbers that will probably get him Hall of Fame recognition.

However, I think he is mediocre when the chips are on the line. I don't think he is a good red zone back.

at his best, Tiki is without question a "great back". The only guys of his era who are clearly better are guys like Tomlinson, Faulk (at his peak), Emmit, and Barry Sanders if you want to go back that far.

Last year, he had the second highest total yards from scrimmage in the history of the NFL. That's pretty significant.

[priceyeah]

Thanks Dealer for the prima facie case that he does deserve consideration. I couldn't see the case at all before, now at least I can see the case.

[Francesa's Lunchbox]

Great conversation.

I know Russo would chime in with a comment about being dominant, an MVP or a champion.

I think Tiki is borderline. A Superbowl ring, plus a great performance in the big game would help his chances.

I also like the TT argument. Thomas was a dominant, game changing back, who performed big in big games. His team also had four Superbowl appearances.

[Icelanders]

I think Tiki is borderline but I would not put him in. I just never got the feeling that other teams would look at the schedule and see the Giants and be like oh how are we going to stop Tiki!!!

I never got the idea that other teams really feared him, or that they felt that Tiki could single handly beat them.

To me that is definitely an aspect that should go into consideration.

[Sid's Manager]

Originally Posted by peterking

Tiki looks like he'd like to suck himself off .... narcissistic hump

wow...that's so not funny.

[Sid's Manager]

Originally Posted by Icelanders

I think Tiki is borderline but I would not put him in. I just never got the feeling that other teams would look at the schedule and see the Giants and be like oh how are we going to stop Tiki!!!

actually, that's exactly what most teams try to do against the Giants.

[Gun to your head]

Originally Posted by peterking

Tiki looks like he'd like to suck himself off .... narcissistic hump

I just read most of your posts (NINETEEN in one day BTW).

Mikefran, is there an ignore function? I can't seem to locate one.

[Oh the Pain]

Who knows, if Tiki has a successfull enough career in the media, he could go into the HOF as a broadcaster.